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I don't really see that, aside from the 1 to 2 jump, angular has been very steady and stable in their approach and and upgrades.

The fascinating thing is that discrete symplectic integrators typically can only conserve one of the physical quantities exactly, eg angular momentum but not energy in orbital mechanics.

One of the greatest comments posted on this site:

noname123 on March 27, 2016 | parent | context | un‑favorite | on: My year in startup hell

>It's brilliant, I'd never want to work for a corporate company! We have regular parties, play table tennis daily, beers on Friday. It just makes work so much more enjoyable.

When you leave or a bunch of your friends who used to go to happy hour together leave "for better opportunities," you'll realize that most people who are your work drinking buddies didn't really know you or felt or thought deeply about your personal experiences. (It's not that they're bad people, it's just what happens when people are put in an artificial social environment where people slap high-fives after work rec dogeball and shout out witty one-liners).

Also when you realize after 5 or 6 years of working, and the startup mantra of "changing the world," your other friends whom you laughed at before, toiling away in their fields have started coming on their own. You have only pushed bits for marketing, spam, online shopping, on-demand on-gig economy for people like yourself to get a stick of gum delivered in an hour. You can try to justify how you are promoted from junior all the way to lead to technical product manager, or how you led your team to switch from Rails to Node, SQL to Cassandra, Java to Scala. But you'll begin to see the thin-veneer of how little management cares about tech and how most of it is a pep-rally, a race to the bottom for those at the top of the Ponzi scheme to enrich themselves.

You look at other people in other fields or in other area's of tech. At work cafeteria IKEA lunch table (after a lengthy morning standup where there was yet another pissing match about React vs. Angular), People shoot the breeze about AlphaGo or that Tay twitter bot, and someone else shoot another witty one-liner comeback, everyone laughs, one person groans - in between the silence after the reactions settle in, it dawns slowly on your mind that we've all become spectators in the real information technology revolution.

That what you are toiling away when you go back to your desk after this lunch conversation is just another Twitter stream, another HN comment, Instagram heart, albeit decorated in syntax highlighting to the "AWS/Google Cloud/Azure Twitterverse."

That is just the same as the well-dressed girl or guy sitting in the next row over in the open-office environment, whom you never talk to but to make yourself feel better, secretly put down in your mind because what they do "is so much BS, social media customer engagement"; but they are the same, and you're all the same...

You call your friends up from college and hear their stories at the precarious precipice of 28-30. How many hours they stayed up at the hospital during a rotation, and a critical debate they had with their attending whether to admit a patient; or how many e-mails they had to sent to get their 15 minute film considered at 50 different film festivals; or staying on after getting finally their PhD, to work for free to do the technology transfer to industry the physics research they worked on in their group; and always, the one-liner remark, "tech has it so much better, you guys make so much money!"

Of course, the response begets a begrudging smile or another sequitur to equalize the conversation; but come work Monday, the habit to don on the noise canceling headphones, the cursory checks on social media to keep abreast fantasy football leagues/stock portfolio's, the internal monologue of the recalculation how much your employee stock options are going to be worth/vest, have all become instinctive rituals to not let the existential dread set in.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11370776

> React isn’t just "winning by default" It's winning because at the core it's just JavaScript function composition.

This might be just a rationalization. React might be "winning" (whatever that means), because it was the first proper component-based library, when its competitors (Backbone, Angular, Ember) were large, slow, and clumsy, and still struggling with the concept. Plus, developers were easily impressed by the word "Facebook", which served as a guarantee of good quality. So it had a tremendous head start. If Vue, Svelte, Solid, or Lit were there first, who knows if React would be "winning" now.

JSX also fools people into thinking "it's HTML in javascript". I've heard several co-workers say this. JSX is a made up language as well. It's not javascript. That's why you need a build step to parse the syntax.

Angular and vue's template language are no more made up than JSX is.

Just about the only footgun I've run into with Vue is that a computed value needs to evaluate all its dependencies the first time it's evaluated, or they won't be tracked. Reading the caveats in React docs about hook ordering is reading the map to a minefield: useful info, but I'd rather the mines weren't there at all. It reminds me of the whole "hot vs cold observables" business in Angular, the takeaway there being no matter how nifty RxJS might be, having no abstractions over using it raw turned out less than ideal.

> This isn't a JavaScript problem. What, structurally, stops the same thing happening to PyPI? Or the Rust ecosystem? Or Lisp via QuickLisp? Or CPAN?

For one, NPM has a really sprawling ecosystem where it's normal to have many dependencies.

I remember that I once tried to get started with angular, and I did an "init" for an empty project and "compile", and suddenly had half a gigabyte of code lying in my directory.

This means that there is a high number of dependencies that are potential targets for a supply chain attack.

I just took a look at our biggest JS/Typescript project at work, it comes in at > 1k (recursive) NPM dependencies. Our biggest Python project has 78 recursive dependencies. They are of comparable size in terms of lines of code and total development time.

Why? Differences in culture, as well as python coming with more "batteries included", so there's less need for small dependencies.

It's winning by default because _there is nothing materially better_. React was _materially_ better than Ember, Angular, plain JQuery, etc. at the time.

Front-end engineers have no issues adopting new frameworks. See the common complaints about the speed front-end stacks change vs. say Spring MVC or Rails.

A more interesting examination is what is the impact of agentic AI tools being able to write better, more idiomatic code in React vs. Svelte because there's more of it. The human side is less of a barrier here.

Except the problem with compatibility is almost always the reactivity element, right? Getting, say, Vue's reactivity system to compose properly with Svelte's, or React's with Angular's. And that's not going to work well when Vue is using signals to decide when to rerender a component, React is using its props and state, and Svelte isn't even rerendering components in the first place.

This is especially difficult when you start running into complicated issues like render props in JSX-based frameworks, context for passing state deeply into a component, or slots/children that mean reactivity needs to be threaded through different frameworks.

Same here. I started learning React when the official angular way of migrating gradually didn’t work at all on my code base, while I was able to use a “react in angular” thing to migrate components one by one. Crazy times

In modern day Angular, everything is standalone, so the module issue doesn't apply.

I've been coding in Angular since 2 and I have never had a duplicate component with the same name. Almost every Angular app uses nearly the same folder structure.

> One of the biggest criticisms at the time (And perhaps still now) was that it wasn't opinionated at all. It didn't make assumptions as to how to do routing, or to fetch data, or to handle state. The community eventually converged towards a handful of solutions, like redux, but it was easy for each project to have its own combination of flavours and patterns.

> Angular was an all-batteries-included MVC framework

As said back then, React is just the "V" in "MVC".

>"Slowing innovation across the frontend ecosystem" sounds like a really good idea to me.

I agree, part of why I detest frontend and its' ecosystem is because these things seem to be always in motion and there never seems to be a solution that is just "good enough". This seems insane to me on a conceptual level because in the end it's just putting things on display on the internet which is something we've been doing for decades. And it's not like things have got better for the end user anyway seeing how so many websites written in these frontend frameworks are abysmally slow.

I wouldn't have much issue with the state of things if I was just a hobbyist making my own website for fun but I do mind when the job market constantly demands something different. I'm glad that React is the de-facto winner because this is what I need to know to get a job but I still see positions that require Angular or Vue.js and I don't even bother with sending my resume because I know I will be rejected. From my experience most companies do not care that you have worked with a different framework in the past, they expect the exact one they've listed.

"I knew you weren't a great engineer the moment you started pulling dependencies for a simple app"

You realize my point right? People are taught to not reinvent the wheel so that's what they do.

You can't expect Vue or Angular to reimplement file watchers, parsers, object/string/number/array utils, etc, etc, etc from scratch.

At work I try to fight hard the tendency of using external dependencies and yet everybody's like "there's a library for it" and they have often a point.

Do we really want to maintain a library that converts HTML to markdown (we need it to parse comments that some APIs like Github return in HTML)? It is half a day work to write one, but pulling one is 5 minutes work and lifts you from maintaining it.

It's really not as simple as "this is a wreck", because your very statement shows why people do so instead of reimplementing their own code.

I guess it's all subjective, but I'll take learning a new Angular codebase over a React one any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

That's simply because you learn Angular once, and then you learn the half dozen things that can differ between projects, and then you know how it works. For React, every project has its own stack and conventions.

I probably won't disagree that the ceiling for a good React project is higher than that for a good Angular project, simply because you have more freedom to make good decisions. But in the same vein, you also have more freedom to make bad decisions, and most people tend not to be very good at making these kinds of decisions.

back in 2015s we had to choose from react, angular and emberjs and we chose the worst one , emberjs. My primary rule now is if lots of people are using after the hype, it should be sth. I also tried vue and react seemed much more understandable for a backend guy like me.

> If you recall the (in)famous "PHP: a fractal of bad design", React basically ticks every box in this rant and then some.

I dare you to walk us through that blog post and explain to us how React "basically ticks every box".

Not only does React not compare to PHP in the slightest, I also find this comparison rather wild because other web frameworks rank so much higher than React on the "quirks & arcane code you need to understand" scale. (I have PTSD from Angular and Vue in particular.)

I have always been a game dev but recently I made my 1st web-app, and I looked at React and Angular and in the end I just used basic html, css and javascript + jquery. It just seemed a lot simpler to make the final product rather than use more tools to make it for me at a remove of 1.

Though if I was going to make a giant complex website then I would consider React, I defo preferred it to Angular cus it had a more "do what u want" vibe rather than "do things this way".

I keep reading unpleasant without any arguments. React is simple by nature, what made it unpleasant and unproductive? Granted I mostly do work on Shopify apps, so most of the heavy work has been done for me, I just put components together. This works fine, and I'd rather do this in React than e.g. Angular due to the small scale of the apps. Then again web components would've also been fine.

Javascript has warts, React has warts, Svelte has warts, Python has warts... It's easy to shoot yourself in the foot in any tech - it's leaky abstractions all the way down after all.

useEffect usage needs to die, yes. I don't think it's a case against React, given its age.

Otherwise, using React is straightforward. I started coding in it without reading any docs. As someone who used Dojo, prototype, ext.js, jQuery (+UI), Backbone.js, knockout, Mithril, the classic angular, vue (2), svelte, Marko and even Solid (I'm not totally sold on signals), React is the most straightforward by a mile.

Is it the most performant? Hell no. Is it the one with the least gotchas/warts? Nope. Concise? A giant no. Batteries included? It depends on what you're looking for...

But I can just be productive with it, and it makes sense.

Thats why it won over the more popular Angular 1 at the time. Angular was introducing directives as a new way to handle dependencies, React chose to stay close to the new ES6 syntax with imports, of course I was going to chose the language that was closer to ES6. I have a feeling React will be closer to the EcmaScript/Javascript standard than Svelte in the future as well ES7/ES8/ES9. Also React Native and React is very easy with LLMs. I am able to build cross platform apps with feature parity which is important because some of us need to make programs for the most popular form factor, mobile, instead of a desktop website.

Clear difference between a library approach and a framework approach. react looks like a library but svelte and tbh angular also look like a framework. As devs we are more comfortable with libraries unless framework offers enough value.

After working with both, Angular is massively more readable and easier to work with.

Hey I worked on that! And nordhealth.design. Both were used with React. And Vue, and angular, and classic server rendered apps like django

Angular: Where is the code for the <foo/> component that is used here? Anywhere in the codebase, maybe defined multiple times, depending on module configuration one or another may be used. Good luck finding which one.

React: Where is the code for the <Foo/> component that is used here? Either defined in the same file or imported, like any other javascript thing.

But React is the crazy one.

A lot of the issues stem from the fact that Meta was backing React for so long (before it got purchased by Vercel), so it always had a ton of resources dedicated to it which helped win the mindshare. It's like that saying, "No one ever got fired for picking Oracle" or however it goes.

The other frameworks (except for Angular) are simply too small when compared to the massive coffers backing React. I mean, Vue is by no means small at this point, there are hundreds of contributors and people are making good livings off of the donations Vue receives, but it's still nowhere near React levels where Meta's full-time salaried employees got paid to work on React. It's a blessing and a curse to be a FOSS framework like Vue.

https://krausest.github.io/js-framework-benchmark/current.ht...

Select all angular, leptos, vue, solid and react variants -> react literally is consistently the slowest

Angular is quite stable as well

In what way React is anywhere near well designed?

Look over quick starts of React and Angular, for example. One is a well structured application, the other is a spaghetti script, all held by magic and conventions.

If you recall the (in)famous "PHP: a fractal of bad design", React basically ticks every box in this rant and then some. It's not surprise knowing it's origins, but still.

The reasons React has got traction are the same reasons PHP got traction or web frontend dev in general and have nothing to do with being well designed: it tries to "render" something visible, which makes early adoption much more interactive (hey, I've changed one line and now instead of 15 errors I have 25 different ones and the text moved!), however at the cost of any shot at long term maintainability. Before someone comes and tells me React is just a tool and you can make good products with any tools I encourage you to look at all the headliner star projects by Meta: if they cannot make websites in React at least somewhat functional and stable, no one can. Google headliners built with Angular, for all their warts, are at least for the most part functional.

why the sudden angular rise last month?